Spelling out why grammar matters

Very interesting discussion here! English is a difficult language when you have so many words that sound the same but are spelt differently.

The one that really irritates me is the use of them.  For example "I like them shoes".  This should be "I like those shoes".  Them is used when you are responding to a question such as "Do you like those shoes"; answer is "Yes, I like them".  I think we can blame a well-known soap for that one!

During a recent episode of The Job Interview, an interviewer pointed out four mistakes in a candidate's CV.  This involved not using an initial capital letter for the different elements of Microsoft Office.  As the role had a large admin content, the candidate didn't get the job.

I think the quality of grammar has declined. I know a lot of people attribute this to the text generation, which there may be some truth. But maybe some of the emphasis or focus on language and grammar has been lost within the education curriculum. 

As someone who has also had to sift through many graduate CV's, it worries me that so many graduates are unable to create such a basic and important document, and sell themselves.

I doubt whether many people can read or write old English script let alone speak it.... which just goes to prove that the English language either written or spoken changes naturally over time and will continue to do so....

Clinton:

Take a look at these two statement of yours:

It's not just about being understood. You're running a business. There will be some readers of your posts who judge you (and your business) on these things. While the odd mistake is often excused, a cavalier attitude may not be treated so lightly.

While professionals, from accountants to business consultants, can be severely impacted if they come across as semi-literate, I accept that plumbers, car mechanics and baby-sitters may not be so judged on the quality of their written communication. I wouldn't judge them harshly either.

Note that I've italicised the important bits.  Do you still not see what I'm getting at here?  Or I am getting it wrong?   Steve?  Steve?  Help? (but don't, if you're just gonna back Clinton up LOL  )

With CVs - that's a whole different ball game.  Yes, there are people who think their CV is brilliant. 

I actually know of one guy, who had/has a CV, and when I saw it, riddled with spelling mistakes and errors, so I went full throttle on it, and helped sorted it for him.  Whether he still uses that CV or not, I've no idea.  And no, I don't know if it helped him get a job or not.

I also think CVs are complicated beasts, and what I mean by that is that what one person thinks is a good CV, someone else might not.  However, spelling and grammar is still the same.

Whether it does or doesn't help a candidate is also debatable.  Some employers don't pay too much attention to the spelling/grammar 'quality' of a CV, others do.  I am sure that there are plenty of employers out there, that have taken on someone, based on a CV that DID have errors in it, but the employer didn't notice!

The fact that you don't get called for interview, can be due to many many reasons, some of which are often total b*ll*cks!

Customers who decide to go with a competitor is usually due to cost, or customer service, or other reasonable factors.  I wouldn't necessarily decide NOT to use a service or buy a product, purely because they happen to have made a spelling/grammatical error somewhere.

BTW, I'm not offended or upset by any means that you keep spotting my mistakes.  It'll take a LOT more than that to offend/upset me!

P.S. If you don't have friendly banter, things can become boring

Barney - I agree /  am familiar with everything you've said there (I think)

I think you perceive a contradiction between the two extracts. However, I don't see one. Perhaps you could elucidate.

The extent to which one is judged on the quality of one's English varies based on profession and one's position within it. There will be some pedant's who refuse to hire a plumber who uses grocers' apostrophes. Ha, ha, see what I 'done' there?!

As I've asserted, I'm not one of them.

I agree with you that clients often choose based on price and other considerations. We'll have to agree to disagree on whether poor English can ever be, on its own, the cause of a lost sale.

Julia, I experienced them shoes recently. It was awful. See below.

Higgers, perhaps it's the text generation, but this text generation is now getting into teaching. I was at a local grammar school recently - one of the top schools in the country - and a young geography teacher was explaining the rules on shoes. "Them shoes are okay," she said, "And them shoes and them shoes and them shoes". Just in case the audience didn't quite understand, her next slide was of shoes that were not allowed. "Them shoes are not okay, and them shoes and them shoes and them shoes."

What hope have the kids got?

I'm here

I think this is a classic case of reading too much into something. I don't think Clinton is having a pop at you personally, he was offering an opinion from his perspective. As he says himself, English isn't his first language, so it's pretty impressive to be grammatically correct in a second language! 

Forum posts are by their very nature much less informal, a chance to show genuine personality, humour and banter. But people do judge, from forums to official press releases so it's finding that balance of how you are seen and perceived.

I've been accused in the past of being too cheeky chappy, which can give credibility problems when sat in front of an important client or tendering for a contract. I suspect the same can be said for most types of business, from web designers, mechanics or even dog walkers!

But I think you naturally find your right style, and a human more personal approach I think works better for smaller businesses. But this can be scuppered by bad writing or very poor grammar which conveys an impression of sloppiness or half a job bob. Look at the multitude of SEO forum posters, you read 1 line and form an instant opinion of them, and their business. Normally its the delete button.

Mind you there are always exceptions. I know a CEO (hate that term) of a really successful company who can't spell for toffee and even apologises in his email footer, which I find hilarious!

Elucidate - now that has to be a candidate for an oxymoron  I had to google it see what it meant 

Clinton, you've certainly livened up Rebecca's thread. Any chance you could visit a few more 

Originally Posted by Steve Richardson

“Elucidate - now that has to be a candidate for an oxymoron  I had to google it see what it meant ”

Sorry Steve, an oxymoron is two words that contradict each other, not a word and its meaning.

Same difference.

Clinton - I give up!  Not going to pursue this 'conflict' any more, you've got off lightly this time

So, I'm not going to elucidate.  Normally I would have said that I can't, because I don't know what that word means, sorry, however thanks to the power of Steve (AKA Google), I now do, so I'm still not going to eludicate.

Oh, and it's "see what I 'did' there?" not "done"  - and NO, sorry, I didn't!

Steve - I DIDN'T think that Clinton was having a pop at me personally, he just goes around correcting everyone's English.  Speaking of which, Clinton, if I had a hat, I'd take it off to you!  Considering you're from Poland, you're English is very very good!

Oh, and Steve, thanks for picking on me there!  "classic case of reading too much into something"  The bl**dy cheek of it!

Why are we talking about shoes all of a sudden?  As long as we haven't got off on the wrong foot on this thread, that'll be fine!  Sorry, couldn't resist that one!