Injury to Feelings

No need to be watching over your shoulder if you simply treat all human beings like human beings.

IIRC Kip and I had this one in the smoking debate, about it being a sad state of affairs when a society feels the need to introduce legislation, in an attempt to force people by law to show each other the respect and consideration they should be showing anyway as a matter of decency.

I agree 100% but it is the people that keep it on the surface that is causing it to spread, I come from Leicester, a city that used to be racist free (OK, maybe not free) but everyone there was mixed and it was a great place to grow up, my own foster mum was black, Sister Una Cole, great lady! It was normal, then the government or whoever decides these things, started putting each race in a separate place, now the integration has all but disappeared racism is growing at a horrid speed, I grow up on a very dodgy estate called St Matthews, and I grew up hard, I have had racism aimed at me where I grew up, (years later) due to the fact that I went back there to see an old school buddy, and because 'White' people do not go there anymore, I got a load of crap of some Somalians loitering around, unfortunately, nobodies scares me, maybe because of a sketchy childhood, so the situation changed to them using their trainers to move away at speed.
I have felt racism in more ways than you could imagine, but I deal with it, move on, what would happen if I made charges, a civil war in the UK? Where does it end?

I have also been a Foreigner, I lived in SE Asia for 18 months, and am now in Cyprus, as a foreigner, I know I am not going to get the same service and sometimes, prices as the locals, people shut up when i walk in the bars, shops etc, but I will not go running off to the nearest 'Help me, they dont like me' centre! I have to fit in with them, not the other way around. And that is the UK issue, if there are 2,000,000 unemployed, and 3,000,000 east europeans, it is going to cause racism and hatred. And the immigrants that are working their ass's off to feed their families are getting a bad name because of the millions being fed and clothed by my tax, and every other tax payers hard earned cash.

The UK is not new to colour, race or creed, we were invaded, raped, pillaged and taken over by nearly every European country, our Royals are Greek and German, our language is a Germanic language.

And I am sorry for your friend, but that makes the exact point I am making, I have had a few needles, and have never once read the ingredients! This is a bad dentist, it could have been done to anyone, how many people with 20:20 vision actually check the needles going into their arms? But yet you said it was only done because she is blind? I am not being unsympathetic, but that is exactly the point I was trying to get across in the first place, people make mistakes, people get treated poorly, whether able bodied, white, black, indian or martian! But if a able bodied man, that could trace his family back to Hastings in the 12 century were to get an injustice, he has to get on with it!

Grossly unfair don't you think?

I totally agree that integration is key. I also agree that there's no point going around starting a court case every time someone looks at you in a funny way.

Where I think we differ is that I believe discrimination has an impact on people and that, when it is a serious impact (such as job loss, or risk to life, or limited access to basic essential public services) there has to be a mechanism for addressing that. You say it doesn't bother you when you experience discrimination, you just get on with it - and that's great, for you. But people respond differently.

You're a soldier. You know that when a unit goes home, they've all seen more or less the same things, all had more or less the same experiences, and some cope, and some don't. It doesn't make a person "bad" to not be able to cope with stuff on a mental level any more than it makes them "bad" to be more susceptible to colds. It's simply not a moral issue.

My friend isn't blind - she's visibly disabled as in, she "looks disabled". She passed the dentist a piece of paper she had prepared on which was typed that she was allergic to this particular anasthetic and to please not use it. He told her she was being ridiculous and not to worry. She attempted to argue but her verbal skills are not good. He then injected her with the very drug she had asked him not to use.

Now, I would hope that a white non-disabled middle-aged middle-class British male etc etc would make a formal complaint about any medic who had been told, in writing, of a serious drug allergy, and yet chose to ignore it.

However I also bet that it wouldn't get to that stage. As soon as that person got told he was being ridiculous (and I have my doubts as to whether that would happen because the white male etc etc commands more respect), I suspect he would be up off that chair like it was on fire - because he has the physical capacity to do so.

I also reckon that if he had any suspicions about not being taken seriously, and he was aware that his allergy was a "life threatening" one rather than a "got the squits for 24 hours" one, there is no way that he would let anyone inject him until he'd seen the label. Again, he has the physical, mental, and verbal capacity to get his point across and resist treatment. I feel that's a significant advantage.

i think what your talking about is serious medical negligence mary which is a totally different kettle of fish.
ive been a victim of that myself and i wouldn't call it racism or discrimination.... just total negligence from a medical expert who should know better.

we trust our lives to medical experts and if they abuse that power then they should not be in the profession and too right they should pay for the damage they cause.

Yes, and it was a purposely extreme example. However for the purposes of this discussion, my friend has two 'disabilities' - a drug allergy, and a neurological condition that makes it hard for her to move or speak. The dentist should have made a reasonable adjustment for the drug allergy by using a different drug. To refuse to make this adjustment was discriminatory. She also should have been allowed to refuse treatment like any other patient - she feels her protests would not have been ignored if it was not for her condition.

The essence of anti-discrimination law is to say that person A has exactly the same rights as person B. It might not always be life-or-death, but discrimination and the refusal to take it seriously does damage.

Well you've really set the cat amongst the pidgeons!

Mary's set out some interesting examples, and although extreme, I do tend to agree with Trena that the example of the dentist would be medical negligence, and if convicted, should be struck off, but I'm no lawyer.

I've been taken to a tribunal myself for alleged victimisation of one my staff, when I was running a techie team for a big firm. It came about when I had to make one of those awful descions, list the importance of your team members in order as you need to get rid of 1 of them.

Thankless job, and it was done on a simple merits basis, and my boss agreed, and the poor chap was laid off. The next thing I hear is unfair dismissal, and the reason was he wasn't in my click, blah blah. All nonsense, and anyone who has worked with or for me knows my feelings on clicks!

After a few months, and me talking to corporate lawyers, it was decided there was no case to answer and it was thrown out.

So could I claim for injury to feelings? Stress? Where does it all stop?

Vulnerable members of our community need to be defended against, and no one would argue in this day and age, with a half decent education and modern upbringing, that Racist abuse is acceptable in any shape or form.

But personally, I think we live in strange times. Our society has developed into an over sensitive politically correct culture. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in 1930's germany, and if I speak my mind, or say anything slightly controversial, the thought police will abseil through the windows and take me away...

Well, at the risk of opening a whole other can of extremely wriggly worms, the false or baseless accusations issue isn't limited to anti-discrimination law. Similar principles occur in cases of fraud, abuse, sexual assault, just about any crime that isn't conducted in front of a full audience of police officers with the perpetrator wearing a big name-tag and offering videos for everyone to take home afterwards.

In any scenario, to be falsely accused of committing an offence is awful and has a huge impact on the person accused - and yes, I'll admit there is a small but vociferous minority of people with such a screwed-up sense of morality that they make false claims in the hope of "revenge", causing untold distress to those they accuse, wasting public resources, and making sure that the serious cases are afraid to come forward for fear of being tarred with the same brush. I also agree that there should be more support and protection for those falsely accused - innocent until proven guilty, and if proven not guilty, restitution made.

But in most scenarios, most cases are not frivolous or malicious (the ones that are, are newsworthy because they're the exception). It's absolutely imperative that the legislation and support is in place for the majority of serious cases.

It is also important that anyone who thinks it's okay to treat other human beings as lesser - by stealing their life savings, by knocking them about, by firing them on any basis other than their competence to do their job - has it explained to them by a voice of authority that actually, that's not acceptable.